tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5603310121784038818.post4155200300511316616..comments2023-04-13T05:49:33.133-04:00Comments on Marshmallow Man to Ironman: Race Strategy: Take the Shortest PathJon Phttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16194112285903636442noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5603310121784038818.post-71667502480527889822016-10-27T08:55:33.208-04:002016-10-27T08:55:33.208-04:00Whhhaaaat? So I was cheating?? LolWhhhaaaat? So I was cheating?? LolJon Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16194112285903636442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5603310121784038818.post-3116055510870019712016-10-27T08:48:01.168-04:002016-10-27T08:48:01.168-04:00Check this out, Jon. The course certification stat...Check this out, Jon. The course certification states that we're to be running on the paved shoulder on the expressway:<br /><br />http://www.acroad.ca/certificates/2016/ON-2016-007-DRY.pdfDouble Bellybusternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5603310121784038818.post-86998620218793585362009-11-11T10:04:15.803-05:002009-11-11T10:04:15.803-05:00A twisty road is much worse.
The theoretical 42.2...A twisty road is much worse.<br /><br />The theoretical 42.2K circular course mentioned is a bad example to use for a waste calculation. If you were running such a course, the arc would be so gradual that one would not even realize they are not running a straight line.Double Bellybusternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5603310121784038818.post-52299171043341475062009-11-09T19:22:46.553-05:002009-11-09T19:22:46.553-05:00A twisty road is worse. In fact upon reflection, ...A twisty road is worse. In fact upon reflection, I was able to find a theoretical course with a 42.2k shortest path and an infinitely long path following a lane. :) Too much time on my hands.<br /><br />Imagine these shoe laces are a race course...<br />http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50098135/Zig_Zag_Ric_Rac_.jpg<br /><br />The shortest path is the straight line, the path hugging one side or the other is almost twice as long. If the bumps on the zigs and zags were made to be even larger, you would still have the straight line as the same length, but the person following the side would be going even further. Extend the bumps even more and you get to the theoretically infinitely long path...Jon Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16194112285903636442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5603310121784038818.post-15207935979147276622009-11-09T11:36:38.536-05:002009-11-09T11:36:38.536-05:00The (theoretical) circular 42.2km is indeed the wo...The (theoretical) circular 42.2km is indeed the worst case scenario, in the sense that if you run the worst (outside) line the whole way you are always the maximum distance from the perfect (shortest, inside) line. In any other scenario, including the extremely twisty one, the worst and best lines intersect once for every 90 degree turn.<br /><br />On, for instance, a two lane road course, the ratio of course width to race distance is much less than that of a 400m track, so the difference (as a percentage) between worst and best lines is much less significant in a marathon than in a 400m race.<br /><br />Which isn't to say looking for the best line isn't of some value, but you have to weigh it's significance with things like shade, camber of the road, etc...Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12045442147918904365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5603310121784038818.post-39126647972665499912009-11-05T17:20:59.391-05:002009-11-05T17:20:59.391-05:00@Double Bellybuster - I'm not sure exactly how...@Double Bellybuster - I'm not sure exactly how they deal with the shoulder... good question. I assumed it was part of the course and used it, and I bet the elites did too. If they won't DQ you for it, it's fair play! :)Jon Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16194112285903636442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5603310121784038818.post-55530608143435614242009-11-05T14:37:52.397-05:002009-11-05T14:37:52.397-05:00computing dijkstra's algorithm while racing???...computing dijkstra's algorithm while racing??? :-Drunwufhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00375917336040100194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5603310121784038818.post-70800684178330141392009-11-05T11:32:14.121-05:002009-11-05T11:32:14.121-05:00Strange what goes through one's head while out...Strange what goes through one's head while out there. I ran the full marathon same day and was absolutely perplexed by the long paths many/most took as you observed Jono. But maybe I am crazy - I stuck within the rumble strips on each side rather than the edge of the road as I figured the measuring device would not have crossed the strips and did not want to take shorter path than the official distance.<br /><br />But would the measuring device have crossed the rumble strips and gone up to the guardrail?Double Bellybusternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5603310121784038818.post-10504509091472298722009-11-04T16:17:56.634-05:002009-11-04T16:17:56.634-05:00In the most extreme case, a straight line could be...In the most extreme case, a straight line could be 1/3rd the distance of following the right side of a path. here's my logic. The worst case is on a path that alternates 180 degrees of a circle going clockwise with 180 degrees of a circle going counter-clockwise. With a wide enough path, you could follow a straight line. The short route is the diameter of the circle, and the long route is 3.14 X the diameter of the circle. This really is academic though since such a course does not exist, and nobody except Kieran would likely take the long route.John Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15348002052380879261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5603310121784038818.post-68292330371271167132009-11-03T13:32:12.735-05:002009-11-03T13:32:12.735-05:00@Kieran - well my next post on Race Strategy will ...@Kieran - well my next post on Race Strategy will have to deal with not blowing up before the end!!! :)Jon Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16194112285903636442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5603310121784038818.post-48299389817147937242009-11-03T13:29:49.460-05:002009-11-03T13:29:49.460-05:00@Mo - that's interesting, I didn't read th...@Mo - that's interesting, I didn't read their article. <br /><br />Did they say why they chose one large circle?? That's not the worst case scenario, the curve would be very gradual. A twisty course could be quite a bit worse...<br /><br />Example: a college track is 400m in lane 1, 447m on the outside, a difference of more than 10%! Now THAT is an extreme example... :)Jon Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16194112285903636442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5603310121784038818.post-15565705540341277622009-11-03T13:28:45.770-05:002009-11-03T13:28:45.770-05:00I wonder if it's possible to focus on your tan...I wonder if it's possible to focus on your tangents so much that it drains your energy that you'd need later on in the race...Kieranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11115370459990770391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5603310121784038818.post-3582029777647925792009-11-03T11:55:20.937-05:002009-11-03T11:55:20.937-05:00Jono: There was blurb in iRun magazine about this...Jono: There was blurb in iRun magazine about this. It basically said if you had a circular 42.2km course that was 10 metres wide and you ran on the outside curve the whole way, you'd add less than 70 meters to the total distance. Usually not a big deal, but I met a guy at Vulture Bait who once missed qualifying for Boston by 22 seconds! Thet 70m would have helped in that case!Mohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17578097931422525894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5603310121784038818.post-5180885688656985762009-11-03T10:51:03.046-05:002009-11-03T10:51:03.046-05:00Nice write up. I try to keep a strait line but it&...Nice write up. I try to keep a strait line but it's usually a challenge at the start of any race. Too many people!<br /><br />As much fun as it is to zig-zag through people collisions are not as much fun.Boris Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12109794946605173132noreply@blogger.com